Peter Barry describes post-structuralism, deconstruction, and postmodernism the way younger generations would describe older generations or visa verse. I couldn't help but think of the arguments between generations of people. Page 60 to 61 really gave me this image because Barry was comparing structuralists to post-structuralists. Do we not learn from our predecessors and then take what they teach us and make it better or unique or whatever else to show how we can make a difference? It is basically organization vs. chaos and that is how my 83 year old grandmother views my generation - very chaotic. It's not like it used to be in the 'old days', but neither is anything else; and that is what makes the difference between the two. What is being said does not seem to matter as much as how it is being said which brings us back to what rhetoric really is - how the message is delivered. The post-structuralists and postmodernists break away from what was accepted as real and true and developed their own realities and truths - that is a big step to take. Longing for the past does not accomplish anything for the future. But what we have read throughout the semester thus far is a scaffold of what the ancients developed long ago.
I have read Barthe's "Death of the Author" and I really like the last line of the essay "...the birth of the reader must be requited by the death of the Author." The death of the author does allow the reader a certain amount of freedom as Barry points out (65), but don't we need some structure in order to understand what the product is supposed to be; or can chaos and freedom give us the final product as well? Individual interpretation is going to happen and rhetoric is rhetoric no matter how you look at it; it is the theory that determines how we will interpret or analyze a specific piece of work, from music to art to literature.
Post whatisms? I am finally starting to see and understand what my teachers' theories were when I was a student and I find it fascinating. I am also starting to see and understand what my colleagues' theories might be. What is even more exciting for me is that I am starting to match my pedagogy to certain theories based on what I have learned; I have always known my pedagogy, and it changes from class to class, year to year; but it has been fun matching it to the theories, people, authors, philosophers, etc. in the literature we have read.
Sunday, September 27, 2009
Saturday, September 19, 2009
Finding Meaning
Okay, here is what I got out of this week's reading:
The audience, no matter the level of education, can interpret a text based on his or her ability to relate to the text; but the reader should not pay much attention to the context or author of the text.
Do we interpret a text based on our personal background knowledge? Or, do we interpret the the text based on the author's time, place, knowledge, and identity? OR, do we interpret a text based solely on the words in the text? I seem to struggle with these questions. Does the interpretation change once the reader knows and understands who wrote the text and in what context? I started thinking about form, content, and context (again) and their relationship. Basically this is what I came up with:
Language determines the meaning, which in turn helps the interpretation in the readers' minds. Based on what the readers know of the language, interpretations vary. If the readers knows anything about the author, interpretations may change. If we only look at the words, language, and structure of the literature, we can criticize and analyze the literature without worrying about the meaning, because we are not interpreting the meaning. Then do interpretation and analysis/criticism mean the same thing? I thought about techniques I use to teach literature and determined that both can be accomplished, but interpretation and analysis/criticism are not the same thing. I think interpretation is looking at why something is said or written to find meaning, and analysis/criticism is how it is spoken or written to identify structure, form, and style. I do agree to analyze literature the author must be divorced from the text and the audience must look at the structure, form, and language. Interpretation and analysis can coexist because they are related, but not the same.
I really like what Culler has to say about literature and interpretation: "...one should seek ways of analyzing the work as an objective artifact" (100). If we treat literature as an 'artifact', then we must know from where and when it came. But to be objective, we must not have any preconceived notions about the artifact. This is nearly impossible because, as humans, we always bring what we know about something to the table. If we take the author and meaning away from the work, will the work have the same affect on us? The language should be doing the speaking, not the author; therefore, from where and when the artifact came should not matter. Poetry is a perfect example of this. Content in poetry can and should be immortal; the style, form, and language speaks to us without identification of the time, place, and poet; but once the poet is identified, then interpretation will probably change.
I think about the 'classics' we teach in high school; three examples would be: Fahrenheit 451, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Frankenstein. These three texts live on today because students can relate to them in the 21st century. Can they relate to them based solely on the language, structure, or form - analysis? Sure. Do the readers relate to the stories because of their interpretation of meaning? Absolutely. I see both sides of the argument because I have taught the arguments. To only look at language, form, and structure allows the reader to analyze style; to look at the meaning behind the words based on background knowledge and information gives way to personal interpretation. Connection to literature is vital to interpretation. Analysis does lead to interpretation when reading these texts. Once the author is added to the equation, then the text may become much more clear to the audience and the meaning probably will change.
Back to my original questions: do we interpret a text based on our background knowledge or the language and structure? This is a big shift from what the ancients believed, but it is still based on those beliefs. Eloquent language can move, influence, and educate any class because of its beauty. Literary criticism/analysis should be based on how the text relays information and not the meaning of what is being said - I agree with the readings in that regard; however, interpretation is a different category. It's similar to rhetoric - is it an art or is it a skill?
The audience, no matter the level of education, can interpret a text based on his or her ability to relate to the text; but the reader should not pay much attention to the context or author of the text.
Do we interpret a text based on our personal background knowledge? Or, do we interpret the the text based on the author's time, place, knowledge, and identity? OR, do we interpret a text based solely on the words in the text? I seem to struggle with these questions. Does the interpretation change once the reader knows and understands who wrote the text and in what context? I started thinking about form, content, and context (again) and their relationship. Basically this is what I came up with:
Language determines the meaning, which in turn helps the interpretation in the readers' minds. Based on what the readers know of the language, interpretations vary. If the readers knows anything about the author, interpretations may change. If we only look at the words, language, and structure of the literature, we can criticize and analyze the literature without worrying about the meaning, because we are not interpreting the meaning. Then do interpretation and analysis/criticism mean the same thing? I thought about techniques I use to teach literature and determined that both can be accomplished, but interpretation and analysis/criticism are not the same thing. I think interpretation is looking at why something is said or written to find meaning, and analysis/criticism is how it is spoken or written to identify structure, form, and style. I do agree to analyze literature the author must be divorced from the text and the audience must look at the structure, form, and language. Interpretation and analysis can coexist because they are related, but not the same.
I really like what Culler has to say about literature and interpretation: "...one should seek ways of analyzing the work as an objective artifact" (100). If we treat literature as an 'artifact', then we must know from where and when it came. But to be objective, we must not have any preconceived notions about the artifact. This is nearly impossible because, as humans, we always bring what we know about something to the table. If we take the author and meaning away from the work, will the work have the same affect on us? The language should be doing the speaking, not the author; therefore, from where and when the artifact came should not matter. Poetry is a perfect example of this. Content in poetry can and should be immortal; the style, form, and language speaks to us without identification of the time, place, and poet; but once the poet is identified, then interpretation will probably change.
I think about the 'classics' we teach in high school; three examples would be: Fahrenheit 451, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Frankenstein. These three texts live on today because students can relate to them in the 21st century. Can they relate to them based solely on the language, structure, or form - analysis? Sure. Do the readers relate to the stories because of their interpretation of meaning? Absolutely. I see both sides of the argument because I have taught the arguments. To only look at language, form, and structure allows the reader to analyze style; to look at the meaning behind the words based on background knowledge and information gives way to personal interpretation. Connection to literature is vital to interpretation. Analysis does lead to interpretation when reading these texts. Once the author is added to the equation, then the text may become much more clear to the audience and the meaning probably will change.
Back to my original questions: do we interpret a text based on our background knowledge or the language and structure? This is a big shift from what the ancients believed, but it is still based on those beliefs. Eloquent language can move, influence, and educate any class because of its beauty. Literary criticism/analysis should be based on how the text relays information and not the meaning of what is being said - I agree with the readings in that regard; however, interpretation is a different category. It's similar to rhetoric - is it an art or is it a skill?
Sunday, September 13, 2009
Science, Theology, and Rhetoric
What I find most interesting about this week's reading is how rhetoric has broken into different branches and starts to evolve to include theology and science; the precursor to separation of church and state? Prior to the Renaissance period, rhetoric focused primarily on speech and how the spoken language influenced people. But during this time, philosophers and rhetors have dissected this "art" into a science to include more than just the educated and privileged aristocrats. At the beginning of chapter five Conley states "...the conviction that knowledge ought to serve practical ends. Human learning ought to have some utility for life; education should instruct not only the intellect but also the will; and the only effective means of conveying truth is by persuasion and eloquent discussion, not by logical demonstration." (110). This seems to be the theme throughout the Renaissance. Logical demonstration was not the goal of rhetoric, but offering purpose to existence was.
During this time in history, there was a lot of conflict. In times of conflict, people look to leaders - who should be educated and well-versed - for guidance and support. Therefore, leaders looked to the old wise folks for guidance to influence and ease the public. It seems Quintilian and Cicero had the greatest influence for the rhetors of the Renaissance. The idea that the leaders looked to the ancients is found on pg. 113, "Most of those Florentines, who could by virtue of their education and standing call themselves 'humanists' were not just scholars but politically active men. Many of them were professional orators who were esteemed because they advocated a code of civic duty, gave education a genuine relevance to political life, and were themselves accomplished speakers, as close as could be imagined to Quintilian's vir bonus dicendi peritus."
But what I really see happening here is that the general public is being allowed an education. Elitism still exists, but it is not as prominent when it comes to education. "...a liberal education, the possession of technical skills that made the active life feasible, and good character" are things all men and women could attain (114). One did not have to be eloquent in order to be wise. As was discussed in class weeks past, what does it mean to be morally good and is a good orator steeped in morality? The impression I get is that Conley believes one cannot be morally good and be a politician at the same time. Evidence of this can be found on page 115, "...devoid of the requirement that the orator be a good man, in the moral sense. Rhetoric was, rather a pragmatic political art indifferent to morality."
As to what I said at the beginning of this blog, what interests me most is the inclusion of theology and science. Breaking something down into its simplest forms is what makes it so easy to understand. Looking at the parts of the whole (metonymy and synecdoche) and the relationships between parts (metaphor and irony) are what help the hearer/audience interpret the message. I think a good orator and morally right orator is one who can do this and have the audience understand what the message is. To be virtuous and true is to be able to talk to the audience. It shouldn't' t matter the discourse, the message should stay the same. That is where the oxymoron of a morally good politician is difficult to understand. When something is put in its simplest form, it is easy to understand, therefore, easy to argue. Eloquence does not get in the way of wisdom.
Augustine states in Matsen on pg. 372, "...although our teacher is necessarily the spokesman of great subjects, he need not necessarily always speak in grand style, but in a subdued manner when something is being explained, moderately when a thing is being criticised or commended; but when something ought to be done, and we are speaking to those who ought to do it, although they do not wish to, then the matter which is an important one, should be stated in the grand style, and in a manner adapted to move their hearts." To move the heart is the ultimate goal of rhetoric. How one goes about doing that is based on the discourse. Tone, inflection, vocabulary, etc. all play a role in moving the heart. But what I see as being true and virtuous is keeping the message the same no matter the audience.
So to sum up, rhetoric has transformed from the ancients, but the ancients have not been forgotten. They sometimes are not recognized or credited by the new philosophers and rhetors, but they have influenced the Renaissance period. Rhetoric transformed to include theology and science, but isn't the goal virtually the same?
During this time in history, there was a lot of conflict. In times of conflict, people look to leaders - who should be educated and well-versed - for guidance and support. Therefore, leaders looked to the old wise folks for guidance to influence and ease the public. It seems Quintilian and Cicero had the greatest influence for the rhetors of the Renaissance. The idea that the leaders looked to the ancients is found on pg. 113, "Most of those Florentines, who could by virtue of their education and standing call themselves 'humanists' were not just scholars but politically active men. Many of them were professional orators who were esteemed because they advocated a code of civic duty, gave education a genuine relevance to political life, and were themselves accomplished speakers, as close as could be imagined to Quintilian's vir bonus dicendi peritus."
But what I really see happening here is that the general public is being allowed an education. Elitism still exists, but it is not as prominent when it comes to education. "...a liberal education, the possession of technical skills that made the active life feasible, and good character" are things all men and women could attain (114). One did not have to be eloquent in order to be wise. As was discussed in class weeks past, what does it mean to be morally good and is a good orator steeped in morality? The impression I get is that Conley believes one cannot be morally good and be a politician at the same time. Evidence of this can be found on page 115, "...devoid of the requirement that the orator be a good man, in the moral sense. Rhetoric was, rather a pragmatic political art indifferent to morality."
As to what I said at the beginning of this blog, what interests me most is the inclusion of theology and science. Breaking something down into its simplest forms is what makes it so easy to understand. Looking at the parts of the whole (metonymy and synecdoche) and the relationships between parts (metaphor and irony) are what help the hearer/audience interpret the message. I think a good orator and morally right orator is one who can do this and have the audience understand what the message is. To be virtuous and true is to be able to talk to the audience. It shouldn't' t matter the discourse, the message should stay the same. That is where the oxymoron of a morally good politician is difficult to understand. When something is put in its simplest form, it is easy to understand, therefore, easy to argue. Eloquence does not get in the way of wisdom.
Augustine states in Matsen on pg. 372, "...although our teacher is necessarily the spokesman of great subjects, he need not necessarily always speak in grand style, but in a subdued manner when something is being explained, moderately when a thing is being criticised or commended; but when something ought to be done, and we are speaking to those who ought to do it, although they do not wish to, then the matter which is an important one, should be stated in the grand style, and in a manner adapted to move their hearts." To move the heart is the ultimate goal of rhetoric. How one goes about doing that is based on the discourse. Tone, inflection, vocabulary, etc. all play a role in moving the heart. But what I see as being true and virtuous is keeping the message the same no matter the audience.
So to sum up, rhetoric has transformed from the ancients, but the ancients have not been forgotten. They sometimes are not recognized or credited by the new philosophers and rhetors, but they have influenced the Renaissance period. Rhetoric transformed to include theology and science, but isn't the goal virtually the same?
Monday, September 7, 2009
The Art of Elegance
Reading about the 'rounded education' was very familiar to me - grammar, arithmetic, geometry, music, astronomy, logic, and rhetoric. I never, however, connected any of this with the study of style. I've always known style to be present in writing, but I really have never put two and two together - so to say -until after reading the chapters assigned for this week. Composition, for me, has never really been an art form, but looking at the five component parts of rhetoric centered on an analysis of this art gave me a little bit of an 'ah-ha' moment. "Invention, the modes of discovering arguments; arrangement; expression, which included the study of style in argumentation; memory; and delivery, including both pronunciation and gesture" (30) are the five components Conley describes. I suppose this explanation lends itself to style and an art form. As a teacher, I have been going through the motions of teaching these five components not really thinking about how powerful they can be.
What I got from the readings is that rhetoric is an art form that can allow individuals to draw conclusions of their own based on the delivery of the message given. The means of delivery portray how righteous and true the speaker is. We were introduced to Cicero and the ideal orator. I see a lot of the Ciceronian theory alive today. The better the speaker, the better the person. After I read all of the readings this week, I immediately thought of George W. Bush and President Obama. Eloquence is essential to delivery and style. I think back to the addresses of the former president and how ignorant he sometimes sounded. His message was lost because he was not an elegant speaker, even though he had sometimes very good and sometimes very questionable messages, as do all politicians. Then I compared him to our current president, who is a phenomenal speaker. He is very poised and sounds very educated. His style creates that impression for many Americans. So how does this relate to the reading? Well, looking at what Pliny said about Trajan and how it was said, it is apparent that style matters. Pliny was able to mix the facts with ideals and create expectations that are acceptable for everyone.
Elegance is impressive. Dancers, women, clothing, jewelery, etc. that is considered elegant is often admired. When something is admired it is sometimes coveted. And when something is coveted, it can often be stolen or imitated. People say imitation is the greatest compliment; so it seems to me that when Cicero, Quintilian, Pliny, Philodemus, and Dionysius took from their predecessors and teachers, they were admiring, coveting, and imitating ideals and theories to create elegance in their rhetoric. This relates to my favorite quote on pg 43 of Conley: "Rhetoric did not wither under the emperors, it just changed tactics." This statement is true throughout history and that is how style creates the message and the response, the elegance.
The argument that rhetoric is an art form remains to be seen; however, the ability to speak to many and change the impression of thought is definitely a talent. I don't know if talent and art are interchangeable. Speaking publicly takes practice, writing well takes practice, communicating thoughts clearly takes practice, so if this is to be considered art, then art is in the eye of the beholder.
What I got from the readings is that rhetoric is an art form that can allow individuals to draw conclusions of their own based on the delivery of the message given. The means of delivery portray how righteous and true the speaker is. We were introduced to Cicero and the ideal orator. I see a lot of the Ciceronian theory alive today. The better the speaker, the better the person. After I read all of the readings this week, I immediately thought of George W. Bush and President Obama. Eloquence is essential to delivery and style. I think back to the addresses of the former president and how ignorant he sometimes sounded. His message was lost because he was not an elegant speaker, even though he had sometimes very good and sometimes very questionable messages, as do all politicians. Then I compared him to our current president, who is a phenomenal speaker. He is very poised and sounds very educated. His style creates that impression for many Americans. So how does this relate to the reading? Well, looking at what Pliny said about Trajan and how it was said, it is apparent that style matters. Pliny was able to mix the facts with ideals and create expectations that are acceptable for everyone.
Elegance is impressive. Dancers, women, clothing, jewelery, etc. that is considered elegant is often admired. When something is admired it is sometimes coveted. And when something is coveted, it can often be stolen or imitated. People say imitation is the greatest compliment; so it seems to me that when Cicero, Quintilian, Pliny, Philodemus, and Dionysius took from their predecessors and teachers, they were admiring, coveting, and imitating ideals and theories to create elegance in their rhetoric. This relates to my favorite quote on pg 43 of Conley: "Rhetoric did not wither under the emperors, it just changed tactics." This statement is true throughout history and that is how style creates the message and the response, the elegance.
The argument that rhetoric is an art form remains to be seen; however, the ability to speak to many and change the impression of thought is definitely a talent. I don't know if talent and art are interchangeable. Speaking publicly takes practice, writing well takes practice, communicating thoughts clearly takes practice, so if this is to be considered art, then art is in the eye of the beholder.
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